Reflecting on our successful mentor/mentee relationship with Adam Kuchnia
On this special 1 year anniversary episode, Ben chats with his mentor, professor Adam Kuchnia, about his journey from sports to nutrition, his clinical background, becoming a professor, being nervous about being a new professor, taking on graduate students, how they have worked together of their years, and trying to pinpoint what worked so well in their working relationship as that time comes to an end.
Find out more about Adam's research by checking out his page-
https://nutrisci.wisc.edu/adam-kuchnia/
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Transcript
[00:00:15] Maybe that's just me, your host, Ben Rush. So up top- you heard right myself, Jevin, Julia, who are all working on this podcast, need some time to write our dissertations graduate and or find jobs. We are taking March and April off. We are debating whether we will come back, starting in may. We'll keep you posted until our return.
[:[00:00:57] We are @deeperthandata. You have until March 1st to do so. Lastly, our episode today, I've waited a long time to have our guest on because I wanted to save him for a special time. We officially released our first episode of the podcast over a year ago. Our first birthday was February 21st to celebrate.
[:[00:02:17] Hey Adam, thanks for joining me on deeper than data. How are you doing?
[:[00:02:23] Ben Rush: I am quite excited to have you here. As listeners have bird, you are my major professor. I've shared like good stories. Good things about you, Adam. But now that get to know you a little bit more in depth for our one year anniversary episode, I thought about this episode, maybe like three months into like the creation of this podcast.
[:[00:02:59] Adam: Yes. My name is Adam and my pronouns are he and him.
[:[00:03:10] Adam: Well, um, I am, I have a shaved head. That's probably because. Fairly bald up top. I have a scruffy beard, I would say, um, red hue. Maybe I would say that I'd like to say I'm athletic build, but I don't think I really am anymore, but I, I I'd say I'm lean about five 10.
[:[00:03:46] So, well, that's good. That's good to hear. Yes. Um, all right. Any identities you'd like to highlight about yourself?
[:[00:04:14] He's pretty, pretty fun guy. I am the youngest of three.
[:[00:04:24] Adam: I'm an assistant professor here in the department of nutritional sciences. Uh, I've been in this role about five years now. I believe since since 2017, uh, last year I also became the director of the didactic program in dietetics.
[:[00:04:53] Adam: So I would say my very first crush, what her name was Sarah, and this was in kindergarten. Our families would go on camping trips together and she was in my shoes in my class and it goes way back then.
[:[00:05:17] Ben Rush: yeah. And this was in Kanosha, correct?
[:[00:05:30] Ben Rush: paint us a little picture of what it was like growing up when lakes maybe with like family, what you did?
[:[00:06:02] So my mom's side, her. To, or her three siblings live down the street from us riding by distance. So I, I became very close with my cousins. I had a lot of cousins, very close, went to school together, which was fantastic. And yeah, living on that, that land within the log cabin kind of, I was positioned right in between Milwaukee and Chicago.
[:[00:06:38] Ben Rush: curious too. Cause like you're, you're working now in nutrition realm, clinical realm. I'm imagining like, as a kid, probably not thinking about healthy options per se.
[:[00:07:07] Adam: I really did not get connected to science. I think until much later, much later than some when I was in middle school, I think I was like you, it was candy.
[:[00:07:41] Ben Rush: and high school.
[:[00:07:55] Adam: Yeah, high school, Adam, he was pretty awkward. I think pretty obnoxious, to be honest with you. And that I was up noxious, you know, starting in middle school, going into high school. And I think that was dampened a little bit because I became fairly insecure because of how small I was. I was very, very small child.
[:[00:08:50] And so again, sports kind of dominate. My upbringing. And so the sports that I entered into soccer, wrestling, and golf, and I got into soccer, I was into soccer as a, as a kid. And my mom was actually my soccer coach and I loved it, but I joined it in high school because my wrestling coach told me I had to, to get into shape for wrestling.
[:[00:09:34] probably became obnoxious again and thought I was just really, really funny. And I'm sure I wasn't, but no, just having, just having that confidence right. That, um, I was still very small though. I was always small. I mean, that's still am right. And I think it was because I became again through sports. I was a multiple sport team captain and I had my friends on the team with me and just having the confidence through athletics, you know, allowed me to come into my own and yeah, but still obnoxious.
[:[00:10:32] Ben Rush: Yeah. I think that's tampered down a bit.
[:[00:10:43] Adam: okay, good. Because it, it was in, it was in there as I mad. It was a
[:[00:10:53] Adam: Yeah. It's all intrinsic now,
[:[00:10:56] You were mentioning, you still feel small. I think you're the tallest person in lab. Like in hindsight, we just have a very small lab.
[:[00:11:18] Ben Rush: when you were starting to go to undergrad, how did you decide to get into a particular major
[:[00:11:30] It, it was driven by athletics and performance. Yeah. And that. So I went to the university of Wisconsin lacrosse and one of the main reasons why I chose to go there is because they had a really solid wrestling program. Honestly, it really, it wasn't about academics. And, and again, I keep saying that I came into science late.
[:[00:12:19] Ben Rush: And then did you also started getting more into dietetics?
[:[00:12:27] Adam: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely later in undergrad. So I think it was.
[:[00:13:12] And so, yeah, by my fourth year, I decided then to take some prerequisites at a neighboring university, which was a turbo in food science and nutrition, because at the time lacrosse did not have a nutrition program. I think now they have a minor. Um, so I took some prerequisites at the turbo university and I, yeah.
[:[00:13:44] Ben Rush: did you jump right from undergrad to a graduate program?
[:[00:14:00] And while I was there, I also fulfilled all the requirements necessary to obtain a dietetic internship, which then allowed me to sit for the RD exam.
[:[00:14:32] Adam: Yeah. So I, so I did the internship, the clinical internship at the university of Minnesota health.
[:[00:14:48] Ben Rush: you feel like you were also becoming even more of your self? Cause I thinking of myself as like 23, 24 was probably when I started realizing, you know, I definitely don't know everything.
[:[00:15:08] Adam: Yeah. It was an interesting time too, because, and you know, it kind of goes back, you know, I wanted, I was really seeking out at that time higher education because I was always, I wanted more responsibility and I wanted.
[:[00:15:48] Um, but once I was down at the research Institute, I just had this, this want, this need for additional understanding, additional training, but it w it was interesting right now, thinking back on it, I haven't thought about this in quite some time, but when I actually moved away and moved down to Florida's really also when I started learning things about myself, some that I liked some that I didn't like, right.
[:[00:16:25] Ben Rush: path is interesting because you did have a little bit of time working in the clinic before going into a PhD program, but you also had, um, it seems like an inclination towards research, maybe the entire time.
[:[00:16:48] Adam: My first experience in the clinic was when I was in my master's program. And while I was, I was a graduate assistant, but I also obtained a part-time job at a male at a small male clinic, uh, there in town.
[:[00:17:45] Right. And so I worked, yeah, I worked quite a bit. I sought out more hours to get that additional experience to work with that dietician. That was, that was on staff. And that's really when I started shaping up like, Hey, this is pretty interesting stuff. And
[:[00:18:11] Adam: Sure. And that can, that varies, right? Depending on if you're at a smaller hospital or if you're a larger, you know, university medical. Well, you come in in the morning to the hospital, you, you have your patient list, right? So you, you basically have a list of patients that you are consulted to see by a physician.
[:[00:18:56] If they were not nutritionally compromised or not at risk, that was fine. We did not have to follow up on them too often, but if they were, then if we deem them to be at risk, then we do a nutrition assessment. We deemed them to be malnourished to some degree.
[:[00:19:18] Did you start leaning towards one subject in particular?
[:[00:19:54] But one of the primary factors that we use to diagnose malnutrition is to do what's called a nutrition focused physical exam, where we go to the patient's bedside and we palpated various parts of the body. And then we try to say something historically about their, their muscle and fat stores. And based on those measures, we can say, as somebody malnourished.
[:[00:20:30] How do I know if that's a muscle and, or, you know, so I was very frustrated. I didn't think that I was doing a very good job and that's what caused me to pursue, um, the advanced degree and looking more at muscle with objective imaging, um, biomarkers, then just kind of physical inspection and palpation.
[:[00:21:07] Ben Rush: right? People might be hearing like. Muscle.
[:[00:21:24] Adam: Yeah, I think you're right. So most people write just, they acknowledge that muscle's important for getting, you know, from a to B, right. For locomotion, it's important for jumping, right?
[:[00:21:56] Right. And so, um, you know, as people are sick and as they're, I get ill or they go through some kind of traumatic injury, the body kicks into gear and actually the muscle lens. Amino acids. It's kind of this reservoir of amino acids that is necessary to actually drive this metabolic response, actually switches to breaking down muscle, to provide the necessary substrates, to fuel the body.
[:[00:22:47] And so it's a staggering amount of loss. And so I just felt like, well, if muscle is this important to mounting this immune response and for getting people out of the hospital, then we have to be able to measure it accurately. And we have to be able to do that repeatedly throughout time throughout a hospital stay and
[:[00:23:09] Muscle mounts and loss besides just using that palpitations so we can actually know what work trying to treat.
[:[00:23:35] But I just think that, you know, as the technology is getting better, right. As we're getting more insight into muscle biology and how it's, um, how it changes throughout time and throughout the seas, I just think we can do better.
[:[00:23:56] How was that trying to balance graduate school and also working?
[:[00:24:27] And then I also took on a new role of being a research and development intern at Nestle health science, which at that point in time was based out of Minneapolis or, or Minnetonka Minnesota, which was right there. And the reason why I did that is I felt like I had to solidify my interest in research. I had to experience what it would have been like to, or what it would be like to potentially work in industry and doing research for Nestle rather than starting on my own.
[:[00:25:22] Although I did like it, I had great coworkers. I worked with fantastic senior scientists at Nestle health science working on those product lines. It just wasn't quite for me. And so I thought that that little deviation and that experience was necessary for me to actually solidify that, yes, you know what, this research path going into higher education starting up my own lab, this is what I'm going to be.
[:[00:26:06] Ben Rush: be doing.
[:[00:26:29] I guess also like, at least in my, my path, and we've probably talked about this a few different times, there might be just some people who go on to do lots of different things and they don't do one thing in particular. I might just be that person, but at least it is trying to figure out like what experience does actually do spark some joy and passion.
[:[00:26:53] Adam: And all those experience they have. They're beneficial. Even if you just determined that you didn't, didn't like set experience, that's beneficial. That's good to know that, you know what that wasn't for me. Right. So I think for you who you have a very interesting path, you had to also, you know, create experiences, all of those, whether you like them or dislike them, what, you know, some of them unique, maybe some of them not so unique, you learn something and you grew from them.
[:[00:27:23] Ben Rush: I, I have definitely appreciated like your flexibility knowing that that people will becoming more, well-rounded not only is good for them, but it's usually going to have returns with the lab or, you know, even in businesses beyond like academia, just having everyone's different perspectives and experiences is going to bring value to the team.
[:[00:28:14] I also wanted them to be productive outside of these walls. I wanted them to be good people outside of these walls. And so having those other experiences, um, you know, either allows you to realize that, Hey, this stuff that we're doing in lab is great, or, you know, it's not quite for me. And so I'm just going to take a little different path either way that could also then make you happier that you found that out, make you, you know, more productive in the lab while you're here.
[:[00:28:42] Ben Rush: you kind of get to this stance in philosophy or at least like mentoring style while you're in graduate school?
[:[00:29:18] And so I think it was, I was very fortunate to have Dr. Erdman who allowed me that flexibility and that freedom, but she understood that I was going to work off hours to get my primary work done in the lab and she was going to be supportive of that. And so, yeah, I think it was, I did not realize that until I was thinking back on my path through, um, those professional experiences, graduate school that I also want to allow you and Jevon and Katie, the flexibility to.
[:[00:29:56] Ben Rush: I bet that was, I mean, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but a bit of a kind of just launch into that, like mentoring sow that you had because you went from graduate school and unlike the typical path for like an academic, you did not have a post-doc to do additional research, maybe glean a little bit more from different styles of working you.
[:[00:30:40] I
[:[00:31:01] So I feel very fortunate that they looked at my clinical experience, you know, eight, nine years working with various patient populations. They took that in lieu of a, of a post-doc, which is not typical. But I think that also, you know, coming back to that, that insecurity when, when I'm coming into this position, um, I felt very insecure because I didn't have that type of background.
[:[00:31:52] I wanted to make sure that I was doing right by the students so that they would be marketable and they're going to get the job that they worked for after their PhD. And I was questioning whether I was that individual who could take them to that level, take you to that level. And, and I still questioned that.
[:[00:32:29] Ben Rush: I feel like I can definitely see that.
[:[00:32:52] And also just openly expressing that it's like, yes, be a good researcher, but also be a good person. Um, and I think when, you know, recently we were onboarding new undergraduates. Uh, you stressed that too, which I would imagine would make them feel like they're going to belong a bit more. Like it's not about power.
[:[00:33:21] Adam: I want to train good people. I want people who are excited, who are nice, who are ambitious, who have drive in the lab. I don't want any egos, right. That that's important to me.
[:[00:33:52] I want to try to make you better. I want to surround myself with people that, um, are just great overall good people in science and outside of science. So yeah, that's, that's really just the gist and, you know, obviously I need to, I need to also be productive throughout obviously, and, and that also, as I'm sure it does a lot of assistant professors keeps you up at night, but I got lucky.
[:[00:34:59] Ben Rush: So you started your first year, you got one graduate student who was Devin. Um, he'll listen to, to have even heard from me cause he's been interviewed on here and helps with the podcast. And then your second year, maybe you're thinking about taking on one, but then wound up taking two, which was probably also a little bit nerve-wracking.
[:[00:35:30] Adam: It wasn't just my own. So yeah. So Jevon came initially and I just needed help to get the lab off the ground. And you talk about, I mean, if Devin was sitting here he'd, I mean, those first, that first year of his was probably pretty hectic because we were establishing a lab, we were ordering supplies.
[:[00:36:23] All right. And so I knew that, okay, well, I'll take. One more student. That was it. I was going to be one more student and I'm also also pretty frugal right. With my, with my funds. Um, but I was fortunate enough in that first year to obtain a pilot pilot award from Victor, which gave me a little bit more cushion or, or made me feel, uh, like I could hire on an additional student.
[:[00:37:22] So I thought it was gonna be great. But then Katie also, her interests were very closely related to. Right. And so I thought, well, she'd be great as well. Um, so I decided who I was going to take. And at that point in time, Rick and Dave came in and we had a chat
[:[00:37:42] Adam: with the department.
[:[00:38:12] I know that I was Katie's first choice. I believe that I was your first choice as well. Is that true? Three rotations. And so they really wanted to keep, keep you both here. And they. Sweeten the pot a little bit with some additional TA ships and things that would kind of offset some of the costs and some of the angst that I have had with taking on two students.
[:[00:39:00] I was very anxious. Now I have three PhD students and I thought that's what people did at the time. I thought people, you just keep taking on students and you keep taking on trainees, right. PhD students. And, and it wasn't until, I'd say about a year ago when I was going through, you know, throughout through one of my other grants, I was going through some meetings, finding out that a lot of people don't do that.
[:[00:39:38] Maybe hired a tech, maybe, you know, a scientist for some continuity, but it was also, it was also great because you know, like I said before, you three are great students. You guys really helped me out. And I think we work well together. And so it turned out to be, you know, a happy ending, a good blessing, and very fortunate about that.
[:[00:40:09] Ben Rush: you know, it's funny. And that I'm in my fourth year, but really working in your lab. Just a like full, full time, just over three years. So it seems much longer probably also because of the pandemic.
[:[00:40:41] Adam: Well, you were starting as a graduate student. I was essentially starting as an assistant professor. I think we both really found our footing. Right. Um, for me over the last few years, I've gained, you know, a little bit of confidence.
[:[00:41:24] Right. And for you, I think similarly, you know, as all graduate students, although you seem, you seem pretty comfortable, you seem more comfortable than most graduate students. When you, when you came in, I feel like you navigate this department, this university very well because of some of those other experiences that you've had because of your potential future endeavors.
[:[00:42:13] Maybe, maybe not, but you and I talk about. Right. And I think I've learned some things from you and in that respect, and maybe you have of me too, but, uh, yeah, you've just really got your footing. And I feel like even though it's up in the air a little bit, what you're going to do with your future, I think you're very certain on the area that you want to go into.
[:[00:42:34] Ben Rush: yeah, I've been thinking about like, okay, the, the next steps or in 10 or 15 years, I still don't have any like Ben in 10 years. I don't know. And we both, you and I have joked about that. Like, you can kind of see the path for Jevity Guernsey the path for Katie.
[:[00:43:16] I think in this, in this specific role, you know, we'll be in touch probably forever. Um, but are things that you also wanted to know from my perspective.
[:[00:43:56] I mean, we've had many a conversations and I think this is unique to your and our relationship. So we've chatted about mentorship style and we've chatted about, you know, what is the best way and how should we be treating some of these younger students. And so I think you've just really vaguely sharpen my skills in all areas.
[:[00:44:43] I think you've just sharpened my skills as a, uh, as a PI, um, as a mentor. Um, and without getting into specifics, I mean, a student like you and Katie and Devin, you have a way of challenging PIs, I think because you are so high level. And, um, I've definitely been challenged to make sure that I can provide you.
[:[00:45:21] Ben Rush: It's also interesting, like, from my perspective, so seeing you, one thing that I would say that you have changed in the past three years is I think being a bit more open with people. Um, and maybe, you know, that's part of having a kid, I think in the beginning, if I was meeting you, if you were going to share something about yourself, like you're just meeting undergrads or maybe faculty members, I would guess you probably wouldn't have mentioned anything about your family, but I think that has changed in the past couple of years, which is great.
[:[00:46:07] Adam: Yeah, no, that's absolutely true. As you know, I, I don't tend to lead on too much and give up to information that easily about myself personally. And I think for a long time, I tried to, you know, keep those two things separate, right.
[:[00:46:54] That that's been, that's been interesting and challenging. So I think just some of the experiences that I've had, um, with my family, my growing family, and, and just getting to know you. It's okay to be vulnerable. It's okay to integrate these two areas of my life, because I think at the end of the day, if I, if I can do that, if I can do that properly, um, that's only gonna make me a better professor, uh, you know, adviser, but also hopefully a better husband and father.
[:[00:47:59] Get things like a bit more efficient at some point. So like lock down, you know, who's specifically doing what, at what time points with deadlines. I don't know if you felt like that has changed or not like since being in landlord, you know, that's probably also coming from a lot of different people in labs as well.
[:[00:48:39] And then where do I need to get by a second time? Right. I think you're very good at, um, directing some of that, which again, I think is, um, it's how you're gonna make. Right. Keep people on task, keep people on track, but you've also while doing that, you you've definitely, uh, keep it light with the lab, right?
[:[00:49:15] Ben Rush: Yeah, I know. I've, I can think of a few times that I've, um, challenged you and it's still interesting because like the power dynamic, um, not that not saying you enforce it, but just it's naturally ingrained, um, even yesterday in a conversation and when we're talking.
[:[00:49:55] It's
[:[00:50:17] But, um, so that's fair. I'm good with that. That's fine. If you want to be more, if it makes you more productive, I'm a happy, happy person. So yeah, that, that's funny. I, yeah, I knew you were going to say that.
[:[00:50:37] It might just be like, oh, that's know, good little, little tiny tidbit and not think twice about it. This is with the caveat of you don't have an ego that when challenged, you're going to push hard back on because you're trying to save your ego.
[:[00:51:04] Right. I didn't have to pull that power dynamic card. Right. Cause you, I mean, you make sense if when you challenged me, it's typically well thought out and that's great. Right. And it's not out of anything, but you know, it's coming from a good place. And so I'm fine with that. And also, I mean, I don't like, I don't want to be that person, you know, I you're right.
[:[00:51:45] Throughout the years, you tell me why you think it's that way. Cool. If it makes sense, and it seems reasonable, I can get on board with that.
[:[00:52:00] Adam: Well, wait, whoa. So the future. Yeah, the future is coming very quick for you. How did you enjoy your time in the lab?
[:[00:52:10] Ben Rush: good question. Um, yeah, kind of like I was saying before, like it, it feels like a lot longer than in the end, which will be three and a half years, maybe slightly, a little bit more than. But I think it has been a wonderful foundational base for me to explore, I think, different career trajectories interests, and also figuring out who I was, you know, in our first, I think one way that I've changed is probably a bit more unapologetically bringing my type of humor to everything.
[:[00:53:11] And it's been a safe space to do that. Yeah. I think the lamp has, has grown a lot. I think each one of us of the graduate students has been able to figure out their own special. Um, and their projects, which I think by allowing us to do that, you've enabled us to become more independent and critical thinkers on our own, which has been really helpful when we've reviewed each other's projects or papers.
[:[00:54:09] Oh yeah. Um, but I think you've also recognized, like I will come to you probably with ideas and then operate on them and then maybe check in every once in a while and just to be like, okay, this is how things are going, which I think as. Well, for me, you know, that's my working style of being independent and not everyone is going to be like that.
[:[00:55:05] Yeah. But I think it's, it's just been a great way to build my confidence in things that are not academic. And I think because you understand that people are not going to be just the research I've been able to. Blossom in that, in that kind of way. Like, I don't know how many PIs would be cool with one of the grad students running a business on the side and, uh, trying to manage a crazy cycle of, uh, podcast deadlines, uh, but also research deadlines.
[:[00:55:46] Adam: well, trust me, when you, when you came to me with, with that, that you were going to be doing these podcasts, I definitely questioned, um, if you were truly going to be able to do this and, um, be as productive as I needed you to be in lab, but the only reason why this could happen is because you were right and you are good at telling me what you're going to do, what you're doing.
[:[00:56:37] Ben Rush: Are there other times too, like I have this as one of my written questions, um, that you felt like maybe Ben like slow down, take it easy. I feel like I've probably come to you with tons of ideas in the past, but you need to make sure that people that are working with you are level headed about the endeavors they want to take on.
[:[00:57:18] But I think also too, is that you are so passionate about a few different things or a handful of different things. I think sometimes you get so excited about one thing that I would sometimes try to dampen it and try to just have you be even, you know, you know, this is a great opportunity, um, but slow it down and try not to get too high or too low.
[:[00:58:04] Ben Rush: Yeah, I think so. Um, when you're in, in, on the other side of that desk, like hearing that, like, you know, we had the conversation like, uh, you know, at some point. Maybe grad school, isn't the best thing for me. Um, and thought of like moving somewhere else. How did you navigate that? Because I would imagine some professors would be like, you're not doing that.
[:[00:58:37] Adam: Well, I think I told you, just think about it, sleep on it and let me know as soon as possible, right? Like what you think you want to do. And, and trust me, that conversation came up with some of the other students or one of the other students as well.
[:[00:59:09] And so you staying in a situation that you don't want to be in, does no good to any. And so I might as well be as supportive as I can until you figure it out. And I had a feeling because of our other conversations that we had, and some of your other things that you were interested in doing that you were going to probably rethink and come back to the table and we'd have another discussion.
[:[00:59:37] Ben Rush: how does it feel now to have one of your graduate students almost done your first one?
[:[00:59:58] Um, you know, it might have seemed long for you had good or bad, I guess, maybe bad, maybe bad, but, um, it flew by absolutely flew by for. And so it seems strange to think that you're going to be going off because honestly, I think I told Jeff and the other day I said, well, in a perfect world, Jevon, Ben and Katie would just stay in my lab and work for me until they're old and gray.
[:[01:00:42] Yeah.
[:[01:00:55] Adam: Any lessons? Oh boy.
[:[01:01:07] Ben Rush: This was not a question that I had. Um, I mean, I find to make sure I'm being mindful of time, so I don't necessarily have anything, I guess like the main, the main takeaway from all of my questions and wanting to have you on here is like, this is a really good example of how to be people can benefit one another, I think from a mentor-mentee perspective and because not every single relationship in academia is always this positive and helpful.
[:[01:02:06] Adam: I'm glad to hear that.
[:[01:02:33] I think it's been working well with you three, you Jevon and Katie. Um, I think it's,
[:[01:03:07] If something is going wrong, we can talk about it. Um, and I also think just being respectful to one another in general is super important and kind of leaving egos and the power dynamic out of it. I think that that might be it right. You're very capable. You're very respectful. Um, and I'm here to, I'm always here to chat and try to make this lab better.
[:[01:04:01] Right. There's never anything like that. Right. So, yeah, no, I'm just very appreciative and I feel very fortunate and very lucky to have you in the lab. Cause I know, like you said, that that doesn't happen a lot of times. Right. And then, you know, days are long projects. Don't get done efficiencies reduced and life inside and outside of this place gets rough.
[:[01:04:40] Ben Rush: Well, Adam, thank you for being on the podcast. Uh, been a real joy having you on here and also throughout the program.
[:[01:04:54] Adam: Yes. Likewise. Fantastic. Thanks for having me on, uh, and you probably need to get back to work. Yeah. Yeah, you too.
[:[01:05:08] I hope this was heartwarming and as reflective for you as it was for me. Thank you to Adam and thank you. You, the listener for listening, I didn't expect to create something like this podcast and certainly never thought it would gain so much support from my friends, family, and community. Thank you to Jevon, Julia and Lauren for helping get the podcast and the business off the ground.
[:[01:05:49] Now
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